The Final Call

A Search For Truth: The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan's Interview With Alex Jones

By The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan | Last updated: Jan 19, 2016 - 2:38:10 PM

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[Editor’s Note: In a very honest and informative session, the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan sat down for an interview and a dialogue with Alex Jones of infowars.com, who describes himself as a Libertarian and who has been called America’s leading conspiracy theorist. The approximately 90-minute session oncamera covered important subjects and must be heard in its entirety. Below is an edited transcript of the interview that took place at the home of the Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad, patriarch of the Nation of Islam, in Phoenix. To order this message in its entirety on CD, DVD and MP3, visit store.fi nalcall.com or call 1-866- 602-1230, ext. 200. Also follow @louisfarrakhan on Twitter and Facebook and visit http://www.noi.org for excerpts from this important dialogue and the full interview.]

Alex Jones host of infowars.com, an internet alternative news site, interviews Min. Farrakhan. Photo: Richard B. Muhammad

Alex Jones (AJ):  Minister Farrakhan, thank you for having me here in your home. Why did you agree to this interview? I know you refused so many others.

Min. Farrakhan (MLF): Thank you so much, Mr. Jones, for honoring us with your presence. We have watched you as you have watched us, and I have learned a lot from infowars.com and some of the wonderful things that you have done. I thought long and hard about accepting the invitation. You’re right. I don’t do a lot of interviews but I thought that this was something special. I wanted you to feel completely free like you are at home; and I want you to ask me the questions that your many listeners would like to know about Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam. There is nothing off limits. You can ask whatever you please and we’ll create the dialogue.

AJ:  There are forces trying to divide and conquer humanity and we’re really coming to a crossroads where people are being told to choose a side but I don’t think the sides they’re telling us to choose are real sides. I’m trying to get people to think outside the box. When I spoke to you earlier that was basically your main focus.

MLF: First, the idea of dialogue, truthful dialogue, that gets us past the media manipulation of persons, events, and the truths of persons and events. I’m grateful to have an opportunity to talk to your audience as well as my own because I felt that I’ve been talking to Black people for 60 or more years and Black people understand me pretty well. But White people don’t know me and may not understand me. … Now, Black people I know because I’m Black and I come up from among my people. But to have a chance now to speak to a White audience, mainly who may be conservative in their culture, thoughts and desires, and for me to be able to represent the Teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad to that group and answer questions that they are interested in hearing a truthful answer to. … We’re two people that live in the greatest nation on this earth but the nation is not now what it could be if truth unfettered would be given to the American people. And perhaps through this dialogue that might happen.

AJ: While the people of the nation of every race, color, and creed are being played off against each other, these big global multinationals are tax exempt and have diplomatic immunity. I see the media on both sides, the Conservative and Liberal, basically turning them all into a big spectacle, everyone fighting with each other. Above it are the social engineers who are attacking the family. Doesn’t matter what color your family is, who are attacking our jobs, shipping them overseas. … While we’re busy fighting with each other, they steal the whole show. And you’re one of the only prominent leaders—be they of any race, color or creed, we’re all the human race—that addresses that there is a conspiracy.

Millions of people a year are charged around the world in a conspiracy to rob banks, a conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy to fraud; but how is it with the power elite it is impossible that they’re in a conspiracy?

MLF:  In the Teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, his great teacher Master Fard Muhammad, who came to enliven the Black people in particular and raise us from a dead level to give us life spiritually, mentally, morally, economically, intellectually, he taught us that. He never used color in this Question and Answer. He asked the question: Who are the 85 percent? Who are the 10 percent? And who are the 5 percent?

And in the answers that Mr. Muhammad gave that we study: Eighty-five percent of the people don’t understand the law of Cause and Effect. And they believe that all of this great wonder is from a Mystery God. They don’t know that God is as real as you and I sitting across the table from each other. Wherever there is an effect that is real, the cause is just as real—though oft times the hidden hand that’s manipulating, creating the effect and the circumstances that begin to divide and destroy is unseen—this kind of Satanic mind is absolutely in control. And that Satanic mind is hiding with a mask of humanity and civility but now it is gradually being exposed.

Ten Percent run 85 Percent. The Ten Percent are those that are privileged, those that are blessed with education and some degree of wealth that 85 Percent don’t share. It doesn’t make any difference whether you are White or Black or Indian or whatever your ethnicity is, and it doesn’t make any difference what your religion is. Whether you’re Christian, or Muslim, or Jew, there are those at the top who guide and govern, who are not necessarily the friend of the masses of the people that they are governing.

So it is the 5 Percent, or just a small group, who know the truth, who understand the Law of Cause and Effect and they don’t believe in a Mystery God somewhere making things happen. If there’s a real evil, then there’s a real Devil. If there’s a real Saint, then there’s a real good person doing saintly things. So here we are now and a conspiracy absolutely is in vogue. And I say this humbly but I’ve had certain people who say, “Well, you’re a conspiracy theorist” and they call you the same. I said, “But do you read the scriptures of the Bible and Qur’an”? 

Is not Satan real? Evil is real so Satan is real. Evil is preponderant in the earth and that is because the mind of Satan that is being transmitted through religion, through education, through the economics and politics of the situation so that Satan is in control of a vast enterprise of institutions that foster ideas that put human beings against themselves and against God and against each other. So there’s real conspiracy and we’re in the middle of it as we are dialoguing. … 

I looked at the many Republicans and Democrats that are trying to win the nomination of their party. It says to me, I don’t want to be vulgar, but it’s like in any major city, you see women undressed, showing their wares for a John to buy them. And it’s like politicians who don’t have money but have ideas and parade themselves before rich and powerful people to get money apparently for their ideas that the rich agree with. But the moment that they become what they are looking to become, they find that the rich have an agenda for them. The rich have something to ask of them like the John asks of the prostitute.

And that’s one of the things that I admire about Mr. Trump because he told them all:  “I don’t want your money.”  And when a politician does not want money from the rich, he’s freer than the others to really do good for the masses of the people, and I think that today we’re in the midst of the darkest hour in American history. If we don’t make the right move, with the right people, at the right time, the America that we know, we’re not going to see it become great again.

AJ: I’d like you to speak some more, if you would, about Donald Trump?

MLF:  I said recently that if the American people voted for Trump, he could take them into the abyss of hell. He’s free. He’s rich. He hates political correctness and rightly so; but he said some things that I would hope, that he would get around him persons who could help him. … If he says, let’s go into Iraq and “take the oil,” that puts him in the class of those Neo-Conservatives who had a Project for the New American Century and they wrote to Bill Clinton and Trent Lott and they talked about attacking Iraq and taking out Sadaam Hussein. Not just because he may be in their eyes a dictator and was once on the payroll of the CIA in the war against Iran and Ayatollah Khomeini; but he had become a thorn in their sides and they wanted to get rid of him. … And that is the crime of those who refuse to come under the control of the IMF or the World Bank who send these people like Mr. John Perkins in his book, “Confessions of an Economic Hitman,” who would go into a small country and tell them how they could improve this and that but they would have to borrow money.

When I was in Nigeria, President Sani Abacha told me that they came to him and offered him billions of dollars to loan. And Mr. Abacha said, “I don’t need your money because the oil that we have is sufficient to get us to do all the good things that we want to do.”

Well, a few years later he’s dead. Now here is Mr. Trump, if he would look at this Project for the New American Century, and I’m sure you have read their writings where they appeal to Bill Clinton to get rid of Saddam Hussein as part of America’s foreign policy. He didn’t go along with it and those members of the Project for the New American Century now got into the inside of government under the Bush Administration.

General Wesley Clark, a retired four-star general and Supreme Allied Commander of NATO during the Kosovo War, said he was introduced to a Defense Dept. memo and I think it was 2001, a memo that came from the Neo-Conservatives that they wanted regime change in seven Islamic countries in five years’ time. And it started with Iraq and Sadaam Hussein, then Syria and Bashar al-Asad, then Lebanon, then Sudan, then Iran and then Libya. All of those countries now are boiling with internal strife. … If he (Mr. Trump) goes into Iraq and takes the oil, that’s a kind of a thuggish mentality. America has the power to do these things but it will not bring the results that America desires. Bush and the Neo-Cons when they went into Iraq, I warned President Bush that what you are doing and the way you are doing it, you will increase terrorism. My words to him proved correct. …

President Obama

Now, here is our president, now I’m talking about Barack Obama because the job that President Bush started was not finished. In comes Obama and when he was campaigning he was a new, and fresh, and beautiful idea; but when he gets into office, he becomes the extension of the policies of the Neo-Conservatives. They surrounded Bush. They surrounded Barack Obama. … So you took a man. We gave you the best that we had but you took him. You gave him the Nobel Peace Prize and then the Neo-Cons and the Shadow Government begin to guide the policies of America. And now here’s what we have. Now, I’m going to come back to Mr. Trump in a minute.

Hillary Clinton was the biggest advocate for the destruction of Libya and Muammar Gadhafi. Gadhafi was my friend. I know him as a Revolutionary. He was against America’s foreign policy objectives and he stood out. That man died but he led his country, they had no debt. There’s no country on earth that doesn’t have debt but Libya didn’t have debt. Libya gave some of the oil money back to all the citizens.

Libya armed the whole country and had depots where if anything happened, they could go and get arms. A man who’s a despot does not arm his people that they can be manipulated to come against him; but the moment he gave up his weapons of mass destruction to come in out of the cold, who came to Libya? It was Richard Perle, the “Prince of Darkness.” And where did he go? He went directly to Benghazi because it was from Benghazi that Gadhafi overthrew the king. So now they never did like Gadhafi. So they started stimulating the upset, the unrest, the dissatisfaction. And I don’t care how good any leader is, there’s always dissatisfaction in every house.

Our government has gone into nations with money from our Congress to stimulate the dissatisfied and then arm them against a government that is their government. That’s what America did in Libya. That’s what they’re doing in Syria and the blow back now is they have created a refugee crisis that is destabilizing the countries in Europe.

So when Mr. Trump said, “We can’t allow these Muslim refugees into America,” a lot of people were upset with him but I know, sir, the hatred for America in the Muslim World is building as we told Mr. Bush: No Muslim leader could call for jihad and have it stick. No Muslim leader had the power to unite the whole Muslim World. I said, “But America’s policies will unite those people against the West” and it is happening.

So in this way, Mr. Trump I think is wise to vette anyone coming from that area into America because the hatred for America is in the streets now. So if those people are refugees and America feels “I got to let 10,000 of them in,” because America created the problem. Now, if you let them in and you don’t vette them carefully, you might be letting in your own destruction.

I’ll close that Mr. Jones with scripture. In the Book of Revelations, it talks about Babylon falling. Ancient Babylon we know but there’s a mystery Babylon that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad says represents America and her dominance in the world. … Now, here we have Babylon falling. Mr. Trump says, “I want to make America great again.” ...  My teacher said, Babylon is America and the Devil means that all of us are in rebellion against the divine laws of God. Whatever God said thou shalt not do, in America you’re free to do it. So whether we like the appellation (the name or use of the term) Devil or not, we are in rebellion against God; and look at the cage of every foul, unclean and hateful bird. Those are the people, he (Elijah Muhammad) said, that are flying out of the Middle East now, coming to America for refuge but they’re filled with hate of this country.

So if Mr. Trump and the government are wise, you vette the people that are coming in. ….

I’m really concerned because Mr. Trump has hit on some very negative things with Mrs. Clinton and her husband. And I think it’s dangerous for the future of politics and for the future of America when we become uncivil in our discourse. … In this dialogue between Mr. Trump as the potential standard bearer of the Republican Party and Mrs. Clinton who has brought her husband beside her in her battle to become the nominee of the Democratic Party, if they start down this road of bringing up negative things about Bill Clinton and they bring up whatever they can discover about Mr. Trump, this political campaign will degenerate into something like two children in a crib. … Two children in a  crib and one child reaches into his diaper and picks up some fecal matter and rubs it in the face of the other one, but the other one’s diaper is hanging lower and he reaches in and gets something and puts it in the face of the other.

Donald Trump

As children you might look at it and laugh and say, oh, that’s funny; but when two adults who are leading parties in the most powerful nation on earth degenerate the dialogue into that kind of personal thing where we knock out each other with the bad of who we are. My mother used to say, “You don’t have to lie about anybody because the truth about everybody is bad enough.” None of us come through this world without sin.

AJ:  Minister Farrakhan, what is your view of political correctness?

MLF:  I think the type of political correctness that the media and those in power want to promote is robbing people of the freedom of thought and speech. I would like to sit with a person and be free to say what is on my heart and if I’m incorrect, then correct me. But if I have to be politically correct like Paula Deen. ... 

Now, Paula’s from the South and you know in the South, in the North, when White folk are together, they might say, you know, “that N-----, or that N-----,” and it’s just as common as saying, ice cream and pie when they refer to Black people. Political correctness that robs you of freedom of speech even if you’re wrong, but to punish somebody who has been calling us out of that name or in that name, since we been here and then take her off television and make it seem like she’s some wicked woman who just used the word.  

And then our comedians will come on television and using, “Nigga, Nigga, Nigga, Nigga, Nigga,” all day long and it’s to some a term of endearment; but Elijah Muhammad never wanted us to use such term in regards to ourselves and we didn’t like anybody using that term toward us. … That is what makes Trump acceptable to so many White people who feel, “Damn, I can’t be myself now. I can’t say what I really feel. I’ll pay a political price.” Mr. Trump says, “the heck with that. I’ll tell you what’s on my mind” and that is freeing a lot of people that like what he is doing.

Political correctness has its place but for me, as a student of my teacher, I think I should always be dignified in my expression, although sometimes in passion, I lose it. And so I thought about, you know, when they said, “Farrakhan, he wants to kill all White people. He’s advocating 10,000 fearless men to go out and kill White people,” as though I’m insane. That’s insanity. And I’ve been teaching for 60 years, sir, and no one who follows me has ever gone out and killed a White person, harmed a Jewish person, bombed a synagogue or even put some Swastika on the synagogue because that’s against our religion to deface a house of worship.

I’m saying that to say this: When I said in Florida, you know, naming all the Blacks that got shot down and according to something I just read where Black people, one Black man every 28 hours is shot by a policeman and young Black men are nine times more likely than other Americans to be killed by police officers in 2015, according to The Guardian newspaper. One-thousand one-hundred thirty-four deaths at the hands of law enforcement officers happened last year.

As a Black man who loves my people, I’m grieved not only at police killing us but I am grieved at our killing of each other which sometimes is ten times more than what White policemen have done. So in my passion against that, and this has been gradually increasing with me over the years, I said, “If the Federal Government does not intercede to see that justice comes to us,” because that’s the government’s job. It’s not my job to kill my killer. It’s the government’s job to arrest the killer, bring them before a court of law and punish them for their misdeed. 

But when the government fails to do it, what are we to do? We have to defend our lives. And so I said, stalk them wherever you find them. Not everybody just the ones that kill us out of the law of justice. If the government won’t arrest them and do that, somehow we’re going ultimately to do that. And then it leads to what they’ll say it’s a race war, no. We are not in any position at all to engage in a race war. It’s ridiculous. It’s destructive. It’s suicidal. However, persecution in the Qur’an, it says, is worse than slaughter. And you know, you talk about 1776 and you are so right but in 1776, America had enough. So Patrick Henry said, “Give us liberty or we’re willing to pay the price which is death.” You force people into that when government fails to do its job to redress the grievance of the people who are suffering. And so I pray that, you know, Mr. Trump will not want to go into Iraq and take the oil because that’s what the Neo-Cons sent President Bush into Iraq to do and it’s a blowback now and the end will be that America will be into the greatest war that she has ever been in, the war that is in the scripture called “Armageddon.” It’s building to that as you and I are speaking.

*********

MLF: For the American people to think that a Black man in the White House has taken over this country, you know, that is so far from the truth because he’s just the CEO of U.S.A. Inc., and they can either hire him or fire him for the job that he’s doing but he’s not in control.

Did you know that it was Mr. John Kennedy who recognized that there was a Shadow Government. … President Kennedy said, “We are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence, on infiltration instead of invasion; on subversion instead of elections; on intimidation instead of free choice; on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned. No rumor is printed. No secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War in short with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.” This is why John Kennedy was killed. He understood the conspiracy and as far back as the Founding Fathers of this nation, they knew that there would be those who would try to take over, set up a Private Central Bank. They were told to guard against that and under Woodrow Wilson, in 1913, the guard left. William Rockefeller met on Jekyll Island with Paul Warburg and his brother who were from the Rothschilds. They wanted to set up like the five children of Rothschild, Sr., the Bank of Italy, the Bank of Austria, the Bank of France, the Bank of England, all started by the banking family.

“Well, who cares who the politicians are,” Mr. Rothschild said, “as long as we control the wealth.” So they bankroll both sides of a conflict and end up ruling both sides. …

*********

MLF: The one thing that’s missing in the dialogue, even with Mr. Trump, nobody’s talking about the future of Black people, the future of the Indigenous, the Native Americans. This country, the Original Sin of America, is the destruction of over 120 million Native People; and when Master Fard Muhammad came, there were only two million Indians left. Millions of us were brought out of Africa, not to be citizens, but to be made burden bearers of the real citizens.  So our sweat and our blood made America rich so that immigrants could come over and find the American dream on our nightmare.  So if Mr. Trump, and I believe he’s bold enough, if he knew how much God is interested in the future of Black people; not that he’s not interested in the future of “all people,” but he’s interested in the future of Black people for this reason. … Black people, no matter what we have suffered up to this very moment, we have never been spies for any foreign government against America. We have never risen up as a force against the tyranny that has been imposed on us by our government. We have fought in every war from the Revolutionary War all the way up to the last war that there was in the Gulf.  And we have never turned against our country.

We have a heart, Mr. Jones, of forgiveness. A heart that today we can love those who have done us so much evil.  So God wants to use us.  …   

AJ: All these divisions, how do we beat that? How do we not play down that destructive road?

MLF:  First of all, we have to understand nature.  God says in the Qur’an, “I created you into tribes and families that you may know one another.” Your tribe is not my tribe but if I do not have enough sense to be to my tribe a person that would suffice the needs of my tribe, then I’m not being true to who I am; but I’m called on to grow. And it’s in the process of growth where we have fallen down. 

So now I have to look out for Black people. I mean that’s my love but that’s not all that there is to me because I have grown and I love humanity now; but if I’m not true to my own people and their needs, you cannot trust me to be true to you. So the first thing Jesus said, the greatest law, “Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength” and the second one is like unto that, “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” In America, we have never been taught to love us. … The present time is warning us, cajoling us, and moving us.  Be true to your tribe but your tribe is a part of humanity.  If you stay just with a tribe, then you’ll never become a nation. …

Min. Farrakhan and Alex Jones exchange thoughts in the courtyard of the Minister’s Home.

War is coming.  It’s a horrible war that my teacher taught us of and my teacher again is the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. I believe him to be a Messenger of God. I believe that God raised him as a warner to America. America you are reaping now what you have sown.  You can’t fight the natural disasters that are coming. Way back in the ‘60s, Mr. Jones, Elijah Muhammad said, “America would suffer from unusual rain, unusual snow, earthquakes unusual.” Then the forces of nature, hail, sleet, snow, cold, fire. … That is God’s judgment coming on America as it was written. Now, God has said you have to reap now what you’ve sown. You’ve destroyed cities and towns in Europe and Africa, in the Middle East. Things that you didn’t want, America destroyed them. Now, look at your cities. They’re under water; your farmland being destroyed; fire burning the lands of California and the West; tornadoes, hurricanes. … This is just the beginning and that is what I wanted to say about whoever will be our president. If you’re not dealing with that which has incurred the wrath of God, then you can’t make America great again and you can’t bring America back from the abyss that she’s falling into. …

AJ:  I appreciate you giving me more than three hours of your time total, when we first got here, Mr. Farrakhan, Minister, thank you.

MLF:  Thank you.  … There is a power in one that is called Mahdi, M-a-h-d-i.  That’s the guide that the Islamic world has been expecting, and Massi or Messiah which the Christian and Jewish world have been expecting.  And this Mahdi when he comes, his number one aim is to set justice in the earth and remove every tyrant.  And setup a government of peace.  That’s the aim of the Messiah, the Christ. These are not spooks and spirits that come out of space. These are human beings anointed with power and wisdom to do exactly what they purpose to do.  That’s why I know the Globalists will never win. Here’s how I would see it. In Islam, the religion needs to be reformed. In fact, all religion has failed to produce the human being that God wants out of us. If we are made in the image and the likeness of God, we are created by God to reflect him “perfectly.” That is not in religion today. Islam now has tyrants ruling. Mecca is my Holy City. I love Mecca. I love Arabia but who is backing Arabia in killing the Houthis in Yemen, using American firepower, planes and tanks and guns? Now, there’s internal strife. They killed an Imam, a Shiite Imam. Now, they’ve broken relations. This thing is leading to Great War now and America, ISIS says, come on over. And America says, “We got to put boots on the ground.” No, you’ll put boots under the ground if you’re foolish to jump into that fray that is made now because the Number One Tyrant is not Russia. The Number One Tyrant is right here.